April 27, 2004
Infotel takes legal action
Ted Franks has filed a petition in Montreal, Quebec, seeking the identity of various commenters on the Infotel thread. I was served by registered mail. I got the slip last night and picked it up this morning. The hearing is Friday. Did I mention in Montreal, Quebec?
The full petition is attached. I don't know if there's jurisdiction over me in Canada but my litigator's basic instinct says that I lose any right to complain of jurisdiction if I respond in substance. Plus, they want names addresses and phone numbers, none of which I have. So my immediate reaction is to not respond.
I'll see if I can access a basic primer on Quebec law in English and gather more info.
...the Plaintiff and his family have suffered damages and are still suffering damages from the previous and current postings;
Good.
Oops -- now they'll want my name, address and telephone number too.
Posted by: McGehee at April 27, 2004 10:55 AM (Permalink)Hey you Canadians, you'd just better watch out. When America runs out of trees and snow we're coming to get you.
Posted by: Michael Williams at April 27, 2004 11:29 AM (Permalink)"When my first amendment rights are in jeopardy, I usually remind those threatening them with my second amendment rights."
Posted by: Laurence Simon at April 27, 2004 12:50 PM (Permalink)The only problem is you have no Second Amendment rights in Canada. Then again, neither does anyone else, so maybe we can just have a group of Girl Scouts invade the country and colonize it.
Posted by: Xrlq at April 27, 2004 01:50 PM (Permalink)Hmmm ... perhaps I should put a notice on my blog that states "by accessing this website you agree that any claims regarding speech presented herein are governed by California law, and consent to the exclusive juristiction and venue of state or federal courts sitting in Los Angeles."
Posted by: Kevin Murphy at April 27, 2004 02:38 PM (Permalink)Kevin, assume that's effective. That puts you where I think I am -- there's no jurisdiction over you. They file in Canada. Now what?
I wish you the best. Needless to say, this is outrageous.
Posted by: Robert Tagorda at April 27, 2004 03:56 PM (Permalink)I doubt that would be enforceable, but then again, they probably don't have jurisdiction anyway. Maybe appear specially, just to make sure you don't end up with a default judgment against you in Canada, which could be a problem if you ever had the misfortune of traveling there.
Posted by: Xrlq at April 27, 2004 04:01 PM (Permalink)I am thinking about special appearance but even if I lose, they are asking for info I don't have. They aren't asking for costs. Plus, I wouldn't appear at the hearing and I can't for the life of me get details like filing fee info. It also looks like there's a requirement for the equivalent of a notary. I doubt my US notary would suffice. Whenever I start to think about the details, I decide not to appear. Let them get an order and try to conform it here.
Posted by: Justene at April 27, 2004 04:07 PM (Permalink)oh, I doubt that's enforceable either -- no contract implied in a libel and not accessing a libel does not alter the harm. But it might cause someone to think twice before filing in Zimbabwe -- for the same reason organizations get signatures on unenforceable liability waivers. It might also get a judge who doubted the juristiction anyway to toss it out quicker.
Posted by: Kevin Murphy at April 27, 2004 06:24 PM (Permalink)Justene,
Infotel is getting "known" for its business practices. Read the following and you'll see how they are creating their own reputation.
http://www.RipOffReport.com/reports/ripoff88667.htm
Yes, they'd love to scare the fool out of everyone -- but think of it, that's how they get people to pay them in the first place: intimidation. Everyone needs to report them to the FTC and the Attorney General.
My gut feeling is that this is as enforceable as their "collections" threats. What galls me is they are a sham and the Canadian authorities know it. I'm sure Phonebusters has the lowdown on this scam. Best wishes in your fight against them!
Posted by: rs at April 27, 2004 07:23 PM (Permalink)As long as Quebec doesn't appeal to the Ninth Circuit or the Hague, I think you're safe.
Can't you just blow this off? This is beyond ludicrous. I know Quebec laws must be messed up out the wazoo, but an international suit from some company because they didn't like what someone posted on your blog? That can't hold up, can it?
Posted by: Clark at April 27, 2004 11:30 PM (Permalink)My feeling is that the only way they can enforce this is to lay in wait for you, desiring a "cheap Europe fix" to visit Montreal.
Then, they have to hope you, confused by all the French road signs, attempt a "right turn on red" which is illegal there, on a day that the local gendarmes are hungry to meet their quotas.
They run you through their computer, which they usually wouldn't do, seeing you are from the States and just got confused. I'm told they usually just give you a verbal warning anyway.
Then what do they do? Put you under a bright light and ask for names and addresses you don't have?
I think I'd just blow it off!
Posted by: rs at April 28, 2004 04:34 AM (Permalink)Do you have a shredder?
Run the motion through it, bag the remains in clear plastic and send it back with a copy of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and a handwritten note that says, "Come get me."
One thing I'm unclear on: isn't it better to respond with a note that you don't recognize the juristiction, and are therefore not otherwise responding, than to just not respond?
Posted by: Kevin Murphy at April 28, 2004 01:03 PM (Permalink)I suggest that you countersue Infotel for defamation of character in US courts!
Posted by: Patrick at April 29, 2004 11:11 AM (Permalink)I Would Report Them to the Attorney General of New York
State of New York
Office of the Attorney General
Bureau of Consumer Frauds and Protection
70 Clinton Street
Plattsburgh, NY 12901
Tel: 518.562.3282
Fax: 518.562.3294
As far as I can see, the only jurisdiction ANYONE has here is the State of New York over the phony "mail drop." Also the FTC and the Postal Service (mail fraud)..
I would have everyone you know who has been harassed by this company file a report with them. The AG needs a LOT of complaints to move on something like this.
Then post a complaint based on your actual experience with the company on: www.complaints.com and on
www.ripoffeport.com
The media picks up on these things occasionally, especially if there is a pattern to the complaints (read: it's happening to so many different people that there has to be some truth to it).
If INFOTEL is above reproach, it has nothing to fear from consumer complaints being aired so that it can address them. If INFOTEL, which walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... well, you get the idea. Put your complaints in a forum where the truth can be learned.
Posted by: rs at April 29, 2004 06:40 PM (Permalink)Correction:
Report them to:
www.ripoffreport.com
Spelling is not my forte.
Posted by: rs at April 29, 2004 06:49 PM (Permalink)Did I Remember to Mention Mail Fraud?
I have a friend in the library system at Barry University who has dealt with these scams for years. Think of it: the scammers can really abuse the system of "standing orders" for legitimate publications.
I wrote her about the calblog affair and here is her response:
"INFOTEL is definitely one of the scammers but not one that I have personally
had contact with.
What I would suggest your friend do is to contact her States Attorney Office
department of Consumer Affairs (or whatever their particular name for it is
there) and file a complaint. Say EXACTLY what happened and that they are
now using threats and bullying techniques to try to collect a bill that is
not owed.
THEN and this is also very important. Contact the U.S. Postal service. Go
to their website and find the complaint form. This is MAIL FRAUD and she
needs to report it.
ALSO contact the Better Business Bureau and file a complaint with them.
She only has to write the complaint once but send it to these three places.
Please tell her to take aggressive action against these people and tell them in no uncertain terms to please feel free to go ahead with their legal suit.
Oh, I don't know what the law is in your state or hers, but in Florida anything that is sent to someone without being requested is a GIFT. You don't have to pay for it neither do you have to return it. You don't even have to acknowledge that you received it.
I wrote letters to each company that we were having trouble with citing the Florida Statute and told them that anything that was sent to us we would consider a gift (thank you very much) and that any phone calls from them regarding it would be considered harassment and would be dealt with as such. I would suggest that you find what the law in your state is and do the same.
I don't hear from them anymore.
I don't give legal advice because I don't have any. I can only say that this is what I did and it worked.
Remind me to send you the entire list of companies. (don't have time to find it right now)
I don't believe that the list that I have is by any means complete, but it's a good start. Actually you should be able to find it on the web because I posted it on Acqnet." www.acqnet.com
Posted by: rs at April 30, 2004 07:29 AM (Permalink)Soon the Federal Trade Commission may be knocking on INFOTEL's door. Here is the FTC press release on another company that does the exact same thing:
For Release: September 11, 2003
FTC Charges Canadian Company with Fraudulent Sales of Business Directories
Commission Obtains TRO and Asset Freeze
The Federal Trade Commission today announced that it has taken action against a Canadian company that deceptively markets “business directories” to small businesses across the U.S. According to the FTC complaint, telemarketers for Datatech Communications, Inc. call U.S. small businesses and tell them that they are calling to “renew” a listing in a business directory, sometimes stating or implying that these are listings in a telephone directory. The FTC alleges that the defendants employ deceptive practices in order to get consumers to agree to these “renewals.” Consumers usually discover, however, that their company has never previously purchased a directory listing from Datatech. The FTC alleges that Datatech makes it very difficult for consumers to cancel these listings, and that the defendants carefully disguise the fact that they are not located in the U.S. but are actually based in Quebec, Canada.
Datatech’s Alleged Business Practices
The FTC contends that since at least 2000, Datatech representatives have called American consumers in an attempt to trick them into buying the business directory. According to the FTC, callers frequently do not disclose their identity, or often claim to be with the Yellow Pages or a local telephone company. In both cases, the FTC alleges, callers assert that the consumers have previously purchased a directory listing and are now calling to renew that listing.
Datatech typically charges $299.95 for a two year listing in its directory, along with a copy of the AT&T National Business Buyers Guide, plus shipping and handling charges. In some instances, even when the consumers have said they do not want to renew or simply want additional information they have been billed anyway, according to the FTC. In many instances, consumers discover that they never initially purchased a directory listing from Datatech and that they were billed for a “new” purchase instead of a renewal. Some consumers are told that this is a renewal, but later learn that their previous listing in the directory was “complimentary” and that the business had no previous dealings with the defendants at all.
According to the FTC, when consumers are reluctant to renew, such as when they are not authorized to make purchases, sometimes the callers assure them that they can always cancel without financial obligation when they receive the bill. But when consumers try to cancel, the FTC alleges that Datatech refuses to honor the requests, often arguing that consumers must first pay a cancellation fee, which typically ranges from $49.00 to $159.00. When consumers refuse to pay the invoices because of the deceptive tactics used to obtain the “sale,” Datatech refers their accounts for collection and threatens to damage their credit ratings, according to the FTC.
The Commission’s Complaint
The FTC’s complaint contains three charges against the Datatech defendants, each of which alleges a violation of Section 5 of the FTC Act prohibiting unfair and deceptive acts of commerce. Count I alleges the defendants falsely represent that consumers have a previous business relationship with Datatech, and have previously authorized their listing in the business directory. Count II alleges that the defendants falsely represent that the consumers have a right to cancel their directory listings without financial obligation. According to the FTC, although Datatech representatives assure consumers that they can cancel the directory risk free, Datatech only provides partial refunds. Count III charges the defendants with falsely representing that consumers have agreed to purchase listings in the directory.
The FTC contends that consumers throughout the United States have lost millions of dollars as a result of Datatech’s unlawful business practices. In filing the complaint, the FTC is seeking preliminary and permanent injunctive relief, including consumer redress, against Datatech Communications, Inc., Datatech-Quebec, and I-Point Media, along with executives Robert Brewer, Elias Bakomichalis, and Gregory MacNeil.
The Commission vote authorizing the staff to file the complaint was 5-0. It was filed under seal in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, in Chicago, on September 8, 2003. On September 8, the Court issued a temporary restraining order prohibiting deceptive claims and freezing the assets of the defendants. The FTC’s Midwest Region handled the investigation and court filing.
The FTC has worked closely with the Illinois and Washington Attorneys General, the Chicago Better Business Bureau, and the Canadian Competition Bureau in this case, and expresses its gratitude for the fine cooperation it has received from these consumer protection officials.
NOTE: The Commission issues or files a complaint when it has “reason to believe” that the law has been or is being violated, and it appears to the Commission that a proceeding is in the public interest. The complaint is not a finding or ruling that the named parties have violated the law. The case will be decided in court.
Copies of the complaint and other related documents pertaining to Datatech are available from the FTC’s Web site at http://www.ftc.gov and also from the FTC’s Consumer Response Center, Room 130, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20580. The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint, or to get free information on any of 150 consumer topics, call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1 877-382-4357), or use the complaint form at http://www.ftc.gov. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, identity theft, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
MEDIA CONTACT:
Mitchell J. Katz,
Office of Public Affairs
202-326-2161
STAFF CONTACTS:
Theresa M. McGrew and Nicholas J. Franczyk, Attorneys
FTC Midwest Region
312-960-5634
(http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/09/datatech.htm)
Infotel deserves everything it gets and more I hope it CLOSES
Posted by: Melina at May 15, 2004 05:12 PM (Permalink)Hi I m reguarding to infotel Publications.........
If this is what most of this is about then I l write on....I am the brother inlaw to two of the Franks as they married My sisters. Recently one of there X-employeys came to me for a Job.....Or may I say more.....I never hired, but did have contact to someone who had sufficient busiss Knowledge to get into Business with this X-Employee........My Brother inlaws sparcly talk to me are areaguent of even tring to be my friend and refusing to agree with anything written on the net.........In there words. I don t have anything to do with any of the other Companies than Infotel.........I m not quite sure but I have herd they used to own Americorp............Both of My Brother inlaws do not talk to me.......When it comes to business or anything else...There pissed that I helped one of there X-employee get a good Job in something more (legal).....I guess There were the only ones with his dog tag...lol They are rude to me refuse to shake my Hand.........I m not looking to get them in trouble but I wish they were nicer people.....P.S.-When I confront them they walk away yet they want to know about my business in which once the conversation starts,,,,,,,,if theres a good commercial on TV thell pay More attention to the TV than I.........I hope the best for them.......But who needs a rude friend.....I even offered to go for coffee to discuss any matters of friendship and I was brushed off, One of the Brotheres still won t talk to me after a small incident at the lake.....I accidently walked next to his dog and he fell(dog) in the water......There friends are people who are willing to do business with them with tight lips...( Those who I guess are needed or succesful)....As for the brother inlaws tring to be a friend well,,,,I guess they ll visit me at my funeral , otherwise,,,,..,I m not quite sure if they think I m worth it.....
The McConomy Files
I have seen so many psuedonyms used by these scammers, particularly the "collections" guy. My all time favorite was a Mister Conn.
We assumed that Mister McConomy was a bogus barrister, but were surprised to learn the truth:
The Real Mister McConomy, Divorce Lawyer, Montreal Politician and Actor! Actually quite a public figure!
And to top it all off, This Article suggests that he may be working for INFOTEL Pro Bono!
Posted by: rs at September 3, 2004 05:53 PM (Permalink)
Ha Ha sucker, you guys are making me money.
Terrance Croteau
78 Jackson crt west
Welland ontario, Canada
Terrance Croteau of Pinacle/mdsc publishing does the same scam as INFOTEL
Learn More About Directory Scams and pass the word along to your associates, clients and competitors. We'll starve them out yet!
Posted by: rs at September 8, 2004 10:26 AM (Permalink)The List of Questionable Companies keeps growing. Be sure to pass it along to ANYONE in your company who handles purchasing, vendor relations or who might even occasionally answer the phone.
Posted by: rs at September 8, 2004 10:33 AM (Permalink)